I Know Dino Podcast Present Notes: Eustreptospondylus (Episode 109)


In our 109th episode, we had the pleasure of talking with Dr. Eric Morschhauser, who received his PhD from the College of Pennsylvania below Peter Dodson. He’s an Assistant Professor on the Indiana College of Pennsylvania who has labored with early birds, theropods and not too long ago basal neoceratopsians.

Episode 109 can also be about Eustreptospondylus, a megalosaurid that lived within the Center Jurassic in what’s now England.

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Eustreptospondylus on the Pure Historical past Museum in Oxford, England

On this episode, we talk about:

  • The dinosaur of the day: Eustreptospondylus
  • Title means “true Streptospondylus” (Streptospondylus means “turned vertebra)
  • Megalosaurid that lived within the Center Jurassic in what’s now England
  • Fossil present in 1870, and at first was assigned to different genera
  • In 1870 some employees discovered a theropod skeleton at Summertown Brick Pit, north of Oxford, England. James Parker, an area bookseller, acquired them after which confirmed them to John Phillips, an Oxford professor. Phillips described the fossils in 1871 however didn’t give them a reputation (on the time, it was probably the most full skeleton of a giant theropod discovered)
  • Baron Franz Nopcsa reassigned the skeleton to Streptospondylus cuvieri in 1905-1906 (Richard Owen first described in 1842), primarily based on it being associated to the sort species Streptospondylus altdorfensis (sadly S. altdorfensis was named primarily based on very incomplete stays). Additionally Friedrich von Huene apparently generally referred to as the specimen Streptospondylus cuvieri and different occasions Megalosaurus cuvieri
  • Alick Donald Walker renamed it to a brand new genus in 1964: Eustreptospondylus oxoniensis
  • Species identify refers to Oxford
  • Walker additionally named a second species, Eustreptospondylus divesensis in 1964, primarily based on a French discover. However in 1977 this was reclassified because the genus Piveteausaurus
  • Eustreptospondylus is probably the most full giant theropod from Jurassic Europe (to date)
  • Just one skeleton of Eustreptospondylus has been discovered to date
  • In 2000, Oliver Rauhut discovered that there are solely minor variations within the hip bones between Eustreptospondylus and Magnosaurus (one other megalosaurid), and in 2003 he instructed they need to be the identical genus, so Eustreptospondylus could be Magnosaurus oxoniensis (not everybody agrees)
  • In 2010, Gregory Paul instructed it was the identical as Streptospondylus altdorfensis
  • Rudyard Sadleir revealed a contemporary description of Eustreptospondylus in 2008
  • Discovered on an island, and lived when Europe was largely fabricated from islands, so it might have been capable of swim (not everybody agrees, and a few assume it was simply swept out to sea when it died, as a substitute of swimming to an island earlier than it died)
  • Holotype is of a reasonably full skeleton, and might be a sub grownup
  • In 1924 the holotype was ready and placed on exhibit, in an erect place (this was modified to a extra horizontal place within the early 2000s)
  • Was considered a dwarf species, however in 2000 David Martill and Darren Naish identified that it was a subadult, not a dwarf species (island dwarfism)
  • Eustreptospondylus fossil discovered was of a juvenile, and Gregory Paul estimated in 1988 that it was 15.2 ft (4.63 m) lengthy and weighed about 481 lb (218 kg)
  • May doubtlessly develop as much as 29.5 ft (9 m) lengthy
  • Had giant hind limbs and small forelimbs
  • Had a pointed snout and huge horizontal nostrils
  • Had a thick cranium, and tall, huge jaws (no enamel discovered, however primarily based on the toothsockets it had an enlarged third tooth in its decrease jaw)
  • Carnivorous, bipedal, and had a barely stiff tail
  • Ate smaller dinosaurs and pterosaurs, and should have scavenged for fish, marine reptiles, and different dinosaurs
  • Can see Eustreptospondylus in episode 3 of BBC’s Strolling with Dinosaurs (reveals it swimming, additionally one is eaten by Liopleurodon whereas fishing, after which two of them eat a beached Liopleurodon)
  • Additionally Eustreptospondylus is featured within the Primeval novel Fireplace and Water
  • Huxley named the household Megalosauridae in 1869
  • It was a “wastebasket” group, that means it included a big number of unrelated species (Dryptosaurus, Ceratosaurus, Indosaurus, Velociraptor)
  • Lived within the mid to late Jurassic about 170-148 Ma
  • Lived in Europe, North America, South America, and Africa
  • Cousins of spinosauridae
  • Thomas R. Holtz provided an alternate group definition as all dinosaurs extra intently associated to Megalosaurus than to Spinosaurus, Allosaurus, or fashionable birds
  • They’re primative theropods; small to giant sized, with sharp enamel and had three claws on every hand
  • Huge predators are normally tougher to seek out than prey, so not a lot is thought about megalosaurs
  • Enjoyable truth: The deepest dinosaur fossil discovery is at 2,256 meters (~1.4 miles). It’s a portion of a Plateosaurus from Norway that was found whereas drilling for oil and was additionally apparently the primary dinosaur present in Norway.

This episode was dropped at you by:

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For many who might choose studying, see beneath for the total transcript of our interview with Dr. Eric Morschhauser:

Garret: And now onto our interview with Dr. Eric Morschhauser. He received his PhD from the College of Pennsylvania below Peter Dodson and he’s now an assistant professor on the Indiana College of Pennsylvania, and he’s labored with early birds, theropods and most not too long ago basal neoceratopsians. So do you will have a favourite dinosaur with all these totally different teams you’ve labored with?

Eric Morschhauser: Do I’ve a favourite dinosaur? It’s all the time—once more, I’m going to do that like all people does, it’s all the time a tricky one. Truly although rising up and—not even rising up truly rising up as a paleontologist I ought to say, after I was an undergrad, I used to be a bit of folks actually inquisitive about theropods, I’ve since reformed, however now I used to be actually inquisitive about theropods and considered one of my favorites, it’s truly Deinnoychus.

Garret: That’s one.

Eric Morschhauser: And it’s considered one of my favorites due to the unique paper as a result of one of many very first scientific papers I learn was Ostrom’s Monograph of Deinonychus. I had gotten a replica, I don’t even know the way, however I purchased a replica of it, had it after I had little or no different like actual severe dinosaur materials not the variety of books, bookshelves that shall stay anonymous, however not the piles and piles that I’ve now, however I used to be on the primary ones I received, and it was actually attention-grabbing as a result of it was actually attention-grabbing to learn Ostrom strolling by way of the concept of what’s happening functionally with the foot, what’s happening functionally with the tail, as a result of all people is aware of concerning the retractable claws, the elevated claws of dromaeosaurs now with thinker after Jurassic Park and every thing, however no person knew about it within the 60s and Ostrom was the primary—Deinonychus was the primary animal they actually discovered.

They’d a lot of [inaudible 00:01:54] foot already, however it seems that the second toe was one of many phalanges that basically tells you what it was doing when the toe was damaged and the foot wasn’t utterly propelled out, and you may see that within the authentic papers from the unique Velociraptor paper again within the 20s and so Ostrom’s medical doctors monograph, he’s actually simply form of pondering by way of that and speaking about that purposeful functionality and I assumed that was actually attention-grabbing. And it’s so attention-grabbing that it’s truly not solely considered one of my favourite dinosaurs, however the second failings of the pital [ph] digit is definitely considered one of my favourite in Deinonychus is considered one of my favourite bones.

Garret: Yeah.

Eric Morschhauser: As a result of that’s the precise bone that has the morphology that tells you, you’ve received one thing with considered one of these reportorial claws. So that you simply want to seek out that, you don’t even want the remainder of the animal. It might be like. “Oh I’ve received a theropod most likely however it’s a variance, we received one thing with considered one of these retractable toe claws.” And so I feel that’s actually cool. I feel it’s a type of issues that’s actually attention-grabbing in paleontology and comparative anatomy is the varieties of inferences you can also make generally with restricted proof. Generally you may’t, generally you do, however you shouldn’t.

Garret: Yeah.

Eric Morschhauser: Or at the very least some folks do and they need to, however it’s actually highly effective simply to give you the chance like in some situations, no, actually you may know loads about what’s happening with an organism from a comparatively small piece.

Garret: Oh yeah. There was a latest evaluate of some monitor methods in South, I feel it was in Southern China and there have been just a few theropod prints that had two toes, they usually’re like, “Effectively there’s probability that’s some form of dromaeosaur, as a result of what else has two toe prints like these?” There are like, “There’s an opportunity that one simply washed away, however actually what are the chances?”

Eric Morschhauser: Yeah, I feel that’s attention-grabbing and also you get this very distinctive morphology in locations.

Garret: Yeah, cool. So switching gears to neoceratopsians and since that’s your present bread and butter, so that you had been on the staff that described Archaeoceratops, did it’s a must to go over to China to do all that work, or did you handle to do it from the US?

Eric Morschhauser: No, I spent a good period of time in China. So I truly wasn’t—I didn’t identify all Archaeoceratops, that was earlier than I used to be concerned in ceratopsians, however after they named Archaeoceratops, [inaudible 00:04:23] and Peter Dodson and truly Mark Romano was on that paper who’s all the way down to Carnegie simply Southeast, he’s form of my neighbor now, not in a literal sense however at the very least he’s not throughout the state anymore, however after they named all Archaeoceratops they’d a cranium and a mandible, and the factor for me that’s actually odd is that many of the world nonetheless thinks of Archaeoceratops as that cranium and mandible.

Numerous years after that my Chinese language colleague Linda Chin, his area crew collaborating with a lot of folks, they discovered quite a few specimens on a barely totally different locality that’s solely about, I feel 100 kilometers away from the sort locality, they received a brand new locality and it was simply stuffed with Archaeoceratops, and so we put out a bit of paper in 2012 Simply to form of flash out among the anatomy of Archaeoceratops utilizing a—simply describing one specimen they usually had one other, a distinct cranium however nonetheless an honest cranium and partial put up skull, however we simply have a lot extra.

And so I form of—I really feel like if I preserve strolling round till these papers come out, many of the world doesn’t know that in reality Archaeoceratops is considered one of our—one of many dinosaurs we have now been—it’s up there most likely within the high ten or 20 finest represented dinosaurs, however no person is aware of that but so and that’s on me and I’m engaged on it, however yeah so I actually when it comes to opening up Archaeoceratops and actually describing its anatomy, and determining the entire animal, that’s form of the mission that’s been happening for some time, and so my contribution to Archaeoceratops to date.

Garret: Cool. So are all of them—there’s the one head principally from one a part of China and then you definitely’ve received a complete group of them in one other spot and that’s to date all of the locations they’ve been found?

Eric Morschhauser: Yeah. I feel we solely have materials from these two, they’re in these two little structural basins however once more aren’t that removed from one another. This a part of China, the geology is a bit of bit difficult when it comes to the precise biostratigraphy, they’re form of determining precisely the place in a specific set of rocks every specimen lies relative to one another, as a result of what occurred is principally lengthy earlier than India collided with Asia, you truly had some like island arcs, think about like one thing like Indonesia that was plowing into the South of Asia presently, squishing it as much as the North after which what that does on the perimeters, proper? When you’ve got one thing like ramming, in the event you think about like a very unhealthy automobile accident, I don’t know, like one of many Batman’s films or one thing, you will have generally that one thing will get t-boned, proper?

The factor that’s getting hit form of bends across the half that’s coming in, that is principally what was occurring however with continents and so these little basins are getting torn open principally actually slowly and never almost as dramatic as Christian Bale in Batman, however they’re getting torn open and so that you’ve received these two basins which might be opening at almost the identical time, simply form of a bit of bit separated from one another. So it will get actually laborious to hint rocks from one to the opposite and to get the relative dates.

Garret: [inaudible 00:07:52].

Eric Morschhauser: However anyway—so sure, in order that they’re from proper subsequent to one another and so far as we all know we haven’t discovered the actual Archaeoceratops wherever else.

Garret: Fascinating. In order that complete tearing aside was occurring in like the center of the continent in addition to farther in the direction of the ends?

Eric Morschhauser: Yeah. Effectively once more it’s a must to do not forget that once more these things is becoming a member of primarily Asia from the South, however there was no India there, proper? So you may take every thing from the border, from Nepal or South and that simply wasn’t there, proper? And so these items which might be becoming a member of Asia are—we’re assembly it up someplace in the midst of the place the Tibetan Plateau is immediately and once more you’ve received quite a few little issues that form of—I just like the time period for it, when you will have issues begin to be a part of a continent, a geologic time period referred to as docking.

And so that you had—we had—there was some stuff docking within the Cretaceous and that’s partly why we have now these a few of these sedimentary basins in Western China from the early Cretaceous. So that you get Archaeoceratops from there, there’s been [inaudible 00:09:00], I feel [inaudible 00:09:02] is from one other considered one of these basins, a bit of bit additional to the East and in order that’s the way you get some of these items that’s in Western China. However sure plenty of Archaeoceratops is just present in these two little localities which might be roughly two hours from the closest substantial set of them.

Garret: Yeah. I checked out a 360 diploma image from a type of basins and it seemed similar to the Gobi Desert, is that within the Gobi Desert?

Eric Morschhauser: It’s within the Gobi. We’re within the Western Gobi, so [inaudible 00:09:33] known as the Trans-Altai Gobi; since you get the Japanese Gobi which is the place say like the unique Cetakasaurus [ph] locality is Japanese Gobi. I feel the Chinese language kind or Cretaceous pink beds the place you’re getting Protoceratops, Hellenic Helaines in addition to a lot of different issues actually just like stuff that we form of consider as traditional Mongolian.

Garret: Yeah.

Eric Morschhauser: Type of late Cretaceous dinosaur honus [ph], these are form of extra Japanese Gobi the place you get these massive basins and never as many mountains in between. And also you get into the Western Gobi and the basins begin to get chopped up and truly among the different traditional Mongolian stuff can also be within the Trans Altai Gobi, so issues popping out of the marked basin like Tarbosaurus or Saurolophus which might be coming from Mongolia, these are all additionally on this Trans-Altai Gobi, they’ll trigger there loads later in time.

Garret: Cool. So is there plenty of variations when it’s a must to go a pair 100 miles for a Ceratopsians or do it’s a must to go between Asia and North America earlier than you begin to see massive variations or are there not even important variations wherever?

Eric Morschhauser: Effectively it partly will depend on what pattern sizes you get, so once more the Archaeoceratops, we’ve received one cranium from one basin and a few dozen good skulls and 70 or 80 people from the opposite basin. However with that being stated, it’s like what’s the variation you’re going to see, issues which might be roughly contemporaneous.

I wouldn’t essentially count on loads however I really feel like in plenty of these locations time is extra necessary than distance while you’re speaking about issues which might be only some 100 kilometers aside. So that you’ve received Archaeoceratops there, Archaeoceratops got here from the identical basin as the unique Archaeoceratops cranium. It’s a bit of bit totally different place within the part and also you’ve received a distinct early horned dinosaur there.

Garret: Okay. So it’s inside a few 100 kilometers there isn’t an excessive amount of of a distinction, you’ve received to go a bit of bit additional?

Eric Morschhauser: Yeah. I feel so. Once more it’s laborious as a result of once more our file, you may pattern place A and place B, however you’ve received to ensure you’re sampling on the identical time.

Garret: Yeah.

Eric Morschhauser: Only a quick distance within the rock data like, “Oh I’m like 4 meters, 5 meters above,” effectively if rocks are being deposited quick, that’s not a giant deal, if rocks are being deposited slowly it’s like, “Oh yeah, I’m like half 1,000,000 years later, or 1,000,000 years later.” I all the time inform those who one of many issues about working within the Cretaceous is I’ve hassle with actually quick durations of time. Like all the size of human historical past or the plasticine, it’s like folks get all enthusiastic about plasticine [inaudible 00:12:27] tigers and I’m like, “Yeah, it’s actually attention-grabbing what occurred yesterday.”

Garret: Yeah.

Eric Morschhauser: As a result of it’s like within the Cretaceous it’s laborious to resolve time scales lower than 1 / 4 of 1,000,000 years.

Garret: Yeah.

Eric Morschhauser: It will depend on how good your rock file is. North America I’m positive we may most likely get higher resolutions there. If you happen to’re actually cautious together with your stratigraphy, the stratigraphy isn’t as effectively resolved in my a part of the world, so we’re engaged on making an attempt to make that higher, however it may be troublesome to try to discover issues we are able to truly pin down your dates.

Garret: Yeah, what do you utilize, I’ve seen some issues the place they use like marine fossils that had been solely round for a very quick time period, what different issues may you do to try to slim that down?

Eric Morschhauser: Yeah, so marine beds are actually nice and that’s most likely one the most effective issues. That’s one of many the reason why I say, it’s simpler to do in North America due to course we had that massive Cretaceous seaway and it was transgressing, it was regressing, it was getting wider and shallower and so your whole—you’ve received your whole dinosaur bearing beds, and also you’ve received these massive tongues of marine fossils after which you may correlate these, the marine animals usually at a lot bigger geographic ranges after they’re alive at the very least a few of them.

And so it turns into very easy to correlate a rock in Montana that permit’s say, don’t have volcanic ash foam, so you may’t radiometrically date it, such as you get a quantity, however you may correlate it by way of these marine organisms to a rock in Italy the place you do have ashes or a rock in China the place you will have ashes, and one of many issues we don’t have in Western China is we don’t have plenty of datable ash beds, and we don’t have plenty of these marine intratongues, and so we’re making an attempt to make use of the ashes and volcanic beds that we have now as finest we are able to.

And the opposite issues you should utilize, some folks use pollen. You possibly can look, strive, and nail down plant evolution and form of use that, you should utilize oyster playing cards that are these little crustaceans which the oyster card you will get recent water in lakes and issues. So folks use these for biostratigraming after they can’t get marine sediments. The opposite factor that we’re engaged on is we’re engaged on utilizing carbon isotopes to do it.

Garret: Oh actually?

Eric Morschhauser: Yeah, as a result of there are at the very least a few occasions because the carbon isotopes, they get integrated into natural materials, in addition they get integrated into calcium carbonate, they’re getting integrated within the minerals, they usually’re getting pulled out of the environment, they work together with the worldwide carbon cycle. So when you have occasions while you’re burying a lot of carbon someplace like within the marine realm, you possibly have a giant marine, extinction or marine an oxic occasion the place a lot of stuff is dying within the ocean and all that, carbon is simply falling into the underside of the ocean basin and getting buried, you mess with the proportion of various carbon isotopes within the world carbon cycle.

And so you may decide up on that in the event you’ve received sufficiently big occasions. And so we’ve been making an attempt to make use of that truly there’s a paper I’m co-author with—it’s actually Marina Suarez who’s on the College of Texas at San Antonio, she’s actually finished plenty of that work. And we took some samples from [inaudible 00:15:35] basin, from this basin in Western China, we’ve received Auroraceratops making an attempt to correlate it to different basins at Western China after which to the worldwide carbon cycle, this world carbon isotope file within the early Cretaceous simply once more to try to get the time frames and within the higher ballpark.

Garret: Okay. So that you’re not essentially form of typical carbon relationship the place you’re trying on the half lifetime of Carbon-14 or no matter, you’re trying on the ratios of various isotopes and making an attempt to correlate that to different recognized locations?

Eric Morschhauser: Proper, precisely.

Garret: Okay.

Eric Morschhauser: So you bought—you will get these carbon isotope data secure—these are secure isotopes versus radioactive ones. It’s carbon…

Garret: Like 12?

Eric Morschhauser: 12 and 13 versus coping with Carbon-14 which is after all all decayed way back.

Garret: Yeah, that’s why I used to be shocked while you began speaking about carbon isotopes

Eric Morschhauser: Yeah, so these are secure ones, however once more crops form of preferentially will use Carbon-12 over Carbon-13, and so in the event you begin burying a bunch of plant matter you begin to enrich the worldwide carbon swimming pools, and I actually hope I’m getting my numbers straight as a result of I’m not a geo chemists on the paper. However I feel crops, many crops are preferentially they use the Carbon-12 and so while you burry a bunch of lifeless plant materials and actually photosynthesizes normally, you bury a bunch of lifeless plant materials and then you definitely begin to see these shifts, they get all the—it’s all the carbon cycle.

So there’s a lot of issues that may have an effect on it. Individuals use it as proxies for a lot of various things not simply—we’re simply making an attempt to make use of it as, look there’s an occasion within the Carbon cycle and we are able to see that occasion in these rocks in say Italy, we are able to see this occasion in early Cretaceous rocks in Utah which is the place I do know Marina Suarez has finished plenty of work as effectively, working with Jim Kirkland dates and at sequence in Japanese Utah and we are able to take a look at it now in Western China.

Garret: That’s actually cool and it’s useful that you simply don’t need to care what’s inflicting these modifications, you simply care that there was a change and you may see it in all places.

Eric Morschhauser: Yeah and once more when it comes to the relationship, it’s like we’re simply on the lookout for an occasion that seems to be reproducible in a bunch of rock sequences the place you may date it very well, it’s like, “Oh this occasion appears to be synchronous, roughly it seems to be world, now we are able to go to those rock sequences take a look at these locations we’re discovering dinosaurs or something actually, and say, “Okay, we are able to try to now line up these two data of the isotope modifications and see if it suits in with any recognized occasions.”

Garret: Cool.

Eric Morschhauser: Yeah, and it actually helps as a result of a few of these Asian localities particularly the place they’re removed from the ocean, we’re not getting even within the Cretaceous we’re not getting this marine affect, they’ve been extremely laborious to this point. And so the unique age on Archaeoceratops is 2 durations within the Cretaceous [inaudible 00:18:32]. It’s a 25 million 12 months time period, so there was someplace on this 25 million 12 months window and we’ve received it all the way down to a bit of bit higher in there, so which is nice.

Garret: So how do issues fossilize, like how do you get so many fossils in a spot the place there’s so little water as a result of from my layman’s understanding the best solution to fossilize one thing is form of in a marine surroundings.

Eric Morschhauser: Within the marine surroundings it’s simple. In plenty of the issues we’re getting contrastual environments, they’re pretty moist and truly the current day panorama on the contrary it was a reasonably effectively watered place on the time of Archaeoceratops. So that is a part of Western China which is extremely dry immediately, we’ve received the one factor that occurs, two issues occur in our area space immediately. There’s a coal mine not too far-off in decrease within the sequence within the Jurassic rocks which might be there, and apparently we truly are excavating and prospecting throughout pasture land which I go searching in there’s actually simply not sufficient vegetation for it to wrap my thoughts round, however it’s camel pastures.

And so often will get up within the morning they usually’ll be camel footprints which might be over all the tracks that got here within the night time earlier than or no matter, so we all know that the camels have been wandering round, I’ve by no means truly received to see them, they’re fairly skittish.

Garret: That’s actually humorous.

Eric Morschhauser: Yeah, I’ve seen proof of the shepherds too, they drive round in bikes. So we’ve received these like grime bike tracks as effectively that once more from folks and their bikes that we by no means see. But it surely’s actually dry now however there was—there are stream beds, there are river beds, there’s proof of ample plant roots, we’ve received root casts throughout so when Archaeoceratops was there, it’s not as if it was doing a scrub or something, it was fairly effectively watered and fairly humid or at the very least considerably humid, humid sufficient for ample crops.

It’s actually form of humorous I feel the rocks they’re buried in a really totally different than what I used to be used to working in after I was doing stuff in Montana, however a part of that’s while you’re trying on the rocks in Montana, you’re 30 miles, 40 miles, 50 miles from the mountains entrance within the Cretaceous. Your complete basin that these Archaeoceratops are popping out of is just about 30 kilometers throughout, and so the rocks look utterly totally different as a result of they principally simply fell off the mountain and received carried down. And so it provides them a really totally different consistency however the environments truly most likely weren’t all that totally different besides that the streams are a bit of bit smaller as a result of it’s a smaller catchment, smaller basin nearer to the supply, that form of factor.

But it surely was truly fairly moist time years we are able to inform and other people have form of interpreted there’s being a big lake within the basin I’m unsure, I haven’t seen any of the lake sediments in that basin I used to be in. In another basins effectively yeah, there are like proof of huge lakes, issues that geologically they appear similar to fossil lake in Wyoming in the event you keep in mind—in the event you’ve heard of that one, that’s within the EC, however you get these actually laminated shells, and also you decide them aside, and yow will discover bugs and among the early birds from Western China are literally popping out of lake deposits which might be roughly contemporaneous to Archaeoceratops, simply a few basins over.

Garret: So what’s the basin that Archaeoceratops is in? It appears like a river form of factor or are you able to inform us?

Eric Morschhauser: Yeah, so these rocks are all principally rivers and the deposits from flood plains adjoining to rivers.

Garret: Okay.

Eric Morschhauser: So the rivers are small for probably the most half, it’s not such as you get this massive river deposit, it’s a meter, two meters throughout, you may truly—in some locations you may see the cross-section of the river channel that crammed in as a result of the river is carrying coarser grain materials than the stuff round it, so that you’ve received these channels, you may even observe as a result of they’re a bit of bit extra immune to erosion than the remainder of the panorama.

So plenty of occasions you’ll have the channel simply form of there snaking throughout the Badlands and this little pillar of rock or the small hill beneath it that’s form of defending from being eroded away. You don’t discover too most of the dinosaurs in these road bedrocks, at the very least not the Archaeoceratops. This bone you discover in there tends to be fairly beat up, however they’re coming from that stuff that will have been the floodplain, it will have been subsequent to the river basin, adjoining to the river, in between the rivers.

Garret: Obtained you and then you definitely don’t get all of the marine, I shouldn’t say marine, however you don’t get the freshwater, I don’t even know how one can name them, freshwater fossils, I assume as a result of it’s close to the supply of the river, so it’s doesn’t have a complete lot of life dwelling in it, is that form of the problem?

Eric Morschhauser: Effectively, normally it’s extra of a preservation downside, proper?

Garret: Okay.

Eric Morschhauser: You consider the stuff that you’d discover, you’ve received issues dwelling in say a mountain stream. That is even a mountain stream, however think about that is some form of small stream that’s popping out of the mountains and also you’ve received stuff dwelling there. There’s going to be fish, there’s going to be most likely some form of crustaceans, one thing like a clay fish, there’s going to be bugs, however what do they get preserved in, proper? They’re sitting amongst rocks which might be bigger than they’re, proper? They’re sitting amongst pebbles and actually coarse grain stuff. It doesn’t actually protect small issues very effectively, generally it does, you may generally get it in there, however normally issues don’t get preserved the place there’s that a lot vitality.

Garret: Obtained you.

Eric Morschhauser: If the stream can transfer fairly massive rocks, it will possibly transfer lifeless fish or lifeless bugs or elements of them actually simply, and so issues simply are inclined to get mashed up. That’s why you’ve received these—that’s why folks love these lake deposits as a result of the water is comparatively quiet on the market, and so that you get this actually positive sediment coming down and that’s what might help form of protect within the element of a few of these fossils, however you don’t typically get in additional coarse grain stuff.

Garret: Obtained you. Okay, that’s attention-grabbing.

Eric Morschhauser: Yeah, so yeah there you go. Dave Ricky could be proud now. He was considered one of my academics way back and so I’m speaking robust on me, [inaudible 00:24:57] please do that.

Garret: Cool. So talking of studying new issues I assume, at SVP you offered on the phylogenetics of neoceratopsia and also you had at the very least 32 taxon [ph], how did you analyze so many alternative species and attempt to classify them?

Eric Morschhauser: Effectively, the factor with plenty of these phylogeny is, proper is that you simply’re a part of it, you go and go to them, and that’s one of many enjoyable issues I take into consideration doing one of these form of taxonomy and phylogenics work the place it’s like, “Okay, I’ve to determine—I wish to determine the evolutionary relationships of those species. I’ve the descriptions, plenty of them are nice, among the revealed descriptions may not be so nice or I’d wish to take a look at issues that simply aren’t within the figures, no person talked about, I’ve received to go see it.”

So that you get to go and journey. And so I used to be visiting early horned dinosaurs in Boltzmann Montana on the Museum of the Rockies and Canadian Museum of Nature and over in Poland and the issues in museums in China along with the animals I labored on within the area, animals and collections in China, so that you get to go and see plenty of these specimens. In order that’s fairly normal, however it’s plenty of enjoyable. However you go and also you additionally construct off of what different folks have finished.

So my evaluation, I attempted to take all the totally different bushes and character matrices that folks have finished, early horned dinosaurs and convey as lots of these characters collectively as I may. I additionally went by way of and other people haven’t—folks write these analysis of species, such as you’re describing a species, you try to discuss, “Effectively listed here are all of the characters that make these species distinctive,” proper? If somebody finds a brand new species, “Oops,” among the issues that you simply thought had been distinctive they usually had been while you wrote it like that’s legitimately one thing nobody had ever seen earlier than.

Effectively now we’ve received two issues with it and in the event you wait lengthy sufficient generally it goes from being effectively solely this species has it too, now in reality these 15 species which might be all in considerably associated, all of them share this attribute. You nearly have to return then and say, “All proper, I wish to determine that species, I’ve to put in writing a brand new analysis, I’ve to put in writing this new description of no, that is what’s definitive on this explicit species.”

It’s necessary work to do and it’s work that doesn’t get plenty of credit score many occasions and so for early horned dinosaurs, it’s simply—we’ve simply been discovering so many within the final 16 years actually. You return, the primary actually horned dinosaur was Leptoceratops in 1913 after which there was—once more for not counting Protoceratops which I’ll form of ignore that Protoceratops and every thing up for proper now, however you’ve received Leptoceratops 1913, you’ve received Montanoceratops eventuality which is de facto near Leptoceratops.

It was initially thrown in with Leptoceratops, however in 1951, there’s the actually lovely Leptoceratop specimens that they’ve within the Canadian Museum of Nature had been discovered and they also realized, “Oh this factor in Montana from the 2 medication formation is totally different than what we’re discovering within the later Cretaceous,” so this later Cretaceous Ceratops, the opposite one is Montanoceratops. Okay we’ve received two style now and it roughly stays that means. You’ve received Stegosaurus bouncing round, and accumulating species and turning into the taxonomic mess that I don’t contact, however you’ve received plenty of Stegosaurus however in any other case you don’t get loads till the Nineties.

After which unexpectedly we’ve received Archaeoceratops reveals up and we’ve received new specimens of Montanoceratops and I’m making an attempt to assume papers are alluding me now, however it begins to snowball within the 90s after which within the 2000s it begins going quicker and quicker and so we’ve received now—once more we’ve received tens of those early horned dinosaurs. However the final time anybody went by way of and truly went species by species, how can we diagnose these, was Peter Mark [inaudible 00:29:04], he did it in 2002 in his PhD, and it hasn’t actually been revealed independently of that as a result of once more I feel there’s simply not plenty of—you don’t get plenty of credit score for doing that form of factor.

Garret: Yeah.

Eric Morschhauser: It’s form of helpful technical work however you don’t get plenty of credit score. So for my PhD, what did I do? I did plenty of the identical factor and the tree that you simply noticed was form of the results of that the place I went by way of and I evaluated all people’s characters together with all of the characters that outlined all these species by formally recording them for all the totally different specimens that I may get my palms on or that I may test within the literature, after which I assembled this new set of characters after which developed some—received a brand new tree out of that.

Garret: Cool. Once you’re all these species had been there, wherever you checked out them and thought that considered one of them is likely to be a juvenile of one other one like how Triceratops and Torosaurus are doubtlessly?

Eric Morschhauser: I attempt to assume there’s. Effectively there was truly one simply again after I began. There was one which was revealed and I haven’t gotten an opportunity to go to the specimens, so it’s totally doable the publication isn’t consultant. However this animal revealed out of Russia and it’s a Mongolian specimen and it’s referred to as, Gobiceratops, and it’s extremely, the cranium is extremely small, which I imply sizes and every thing as Jack Horner would say, as John Kernel would say, as I’d say, however it has actually giant orbits for its physique dimension.

It has a very quick snarl, it’s received a tooth rely that’s loads decrease than most different adults horned dinosaurs, it doesn’t have a frail, once more I name—I consider it like a bit of golf ball with eyes, and it appears loads like people which have been recognized, these form of options, giant eyes, quick snarl, lack of frail, lowered tooth rely. You see that in a lot of issues that nobody is de facto arguing are juvenile members of different ceratopsian teams. So there’s the lovely little Stegosaurus skulls which might be in New York, which might be on show within the [inaudible 00:31:18. I love that they’re out there.

Garret: Yeah those are great. Is that the one where they have a magnifying glass in front of one of them?

Eric Morschhauser: Right exactly. They’re just so small, Gobiceratops, the skull is supposedly an adult which the paper claims it as an adult, it’s just that small. So I think that one again, I haven’t seen it in person, so there’s still the chance that I’m wrong, I don’t think they really marshaled a lot of evidence in terms of the fact, the age of that specimen, but a lot of those features are a constellation of things that we see in juveniles. So there’s probably one or two species out there that may be juveniles of others. But at the same time a lot of them, a lot of these animals are coming from different, just different places in different places in the stratigraphic column.

I can think of Aquilops as one, it’s a North American horned dinosaur, it’s actually the oldest horned dinosaur from North America, was described back in 2014 I think. And Aquilops is great because you can go in 3D and print it. They’ve got the skull out, the data is free from on plus one, the paper is on plus one, you just go, you can get the 3D data for the skull and you could 3D print your own little Aquilops and I actually did because it’s great.

But the entire skull of Aquilops is only about five or six inches long and they admit in the paper that it’s like it’s possible but it’s a relatively young individual. It’s hard to age skulls in terms of we like to use histology, you like to look at—or micro-structured to do it, the features that we use work best on long bones.

Garret: Yeah.

Eric Morschhauser: You can pick some rough inferences from skull that’s really hard to get a real solid age on a skull at least right now, again people could look at it more and hopefully will be able to but—so that’s kind of hard because you have things that it’s like it might be a juvenile but it’s still valid, it’s still its own thing. So we’ll have to see whether anything get shaken up on the tree certainly my analysis don’t shake up a whole lot of things but nothing, I haven’t found anything controversial that other people haven’t considered as controversial.

Garret: Okay. What do you think of Triceratops and Torosaurus in terms of whether or not they’re distinct?

Eric Morschhauser: I think it’s a really interesting idea and a really compelling idea, and I really want it to be right. But I’m—and I think there are a lot of specimens that I haven’t seen yet, and so I’m kind of waiting for the other shoe to drop as it were. I think the argument that Nedoceratops isn’t something distinctive is good and fine, it’s a something. It’s probably a Triceratops, it’s also an awful lot of plaster which is a bit [inaudible 00:34:18], however plenty of previous specimens persons are similar to, “Oh there’s a gap there, they usually put some plaster on that,” they need the helpful data on that a part of the joys. And I feel—so I feel among the options which have been recognized are actually attention-grabbing.

And once more I feel it’s a really a lot alive speculation and speculation. I simply—I would like these transitional ones, I would like actually good definitive transitional particularly transitional types of the frail the place it’s not an incomplete like we’re simply sitting there and simply attempt to an open [inaudible 00:34:55] “Okay, good.” They usually’re small and there’s only a logic proof that they’re increasing and right here’s the pridol [ph] and it’s tied up with considered one of these transitional [inaudible 00:35:03] they discuss and I simply—I would like all collectively and I would like limbs which you could skinny sections and get histology off of the limbs which might be related to the heads which is the factor that Triceratops by no means provides you sufficient of. It’s all the time—you nearly all the time like Triceratops postcranium related to skulls could be very nice. I try this or like everybody says it’s like a child Torosaurus or so simply one thing, one thing that provides us a pleasant let.

Garret: Possibly simpler to seek out as a result of then you definitely simply want the cranium.

Eric Morschhauser: It’s true. Actually you actually simply want the [inaudible 00:35:39].

Garret: Yeah, that’s true.

Eric Morschhauser: You may want some extra, however, yeah. So I assume I’m within the camp that it’s like I actually need extra proof as a result of it’s—I feel it makes plenty of sense however on the identical time it truly is considered one of these hypotheses that’s form of pushing our understanding of dwelling organisms as effectively as a result of it form of goes towards our basic understanding of how plenty of dwelling organisms develop. These main modifications in cranium structure which might be proposed within the Torosaurus is Triceratops speculation are occurring comparatively late in life.

Garret: Yeah.

Eric Morschhauser: And whereas they’re not like theoretically inconceivable, it’s not like this occurs in each organism that we see, we have now plenty of organism state which have this sort of determinant progress the place it’s prefer it grows after which morphology stops altering in a giant means.

Garret: Yeah.

Eric Morschhauser: We might get some modifications however you don’t have issues dramatically elongating these massive cranial options late in life.

Garret: Yeah, massive holes opening up within the cranium.

Eric Morschhauser: Proper. And so there’s a way during which prefer it’s—I feel it’s truthful to be aware and once more to be truthful everybody goes out and goes and testing this, of us from Yale have checked out cranial fusion, you’ve received of us from Montana State and elsewhere are trying on the bone histology extra intently to see is there proof of bone resolving massive bone rising, is there truly proof within the skulls of this main reworking, and so I feel that’s good however all these exams now have to return again in, I feel.

So I’m a bit hesitant and once more it’s actually laborious as a result of it’s like effectively the opposite factor is we have now to differentiate between our competing hypotheses of, is that this morphologically distinct factor a uncommon however totally different taxon which occurs, and somebody has or is it only a sure age stage of an current taxon and so I feel it’s laborious to differentiate that generally. You’re waffling, and principally saying that I feel it’s a very compelling speculation and I feel I’ve—however I feel the papers are out which might be constructing it piece by piece, however I feel there’s room nonetheless for warning in it.

Garret: Yeah.

Eric Morschhauser: So I feel they’ve actually finished that with the Psittacosaurus [ph], I feel there’s a greater case for among the Psittacosaurus that they’ve synonymized. However truly it’s attention-grabbing you level that out. One of many different issues I’ve been engaged on with Archaeoceratops, you’ve received juveniles and juveniles in a world of ceratops aren’t following the sample that’s form of been put ahead by Jack Warner, John [inaudible 00:38:28] Triceratops and ceratopsians and Dave Evans and his colleagues who’re duckbill dinosaurs they usually’re discovering is de facto parallel patterns of, yeah, the juveniles have this distinctive morphology.

They typically have a bunch of traits that appear to be they belong in members from the bottom of the clad, form of primitive traits if I can use the time period they usually—these juveniles don’t take a look at all just like the adults and so it’s a must to be actually cautious in the event you utilizing juveniles in your—making an attempt to do your loved ones bushes and issues, as a result of they have an inclination to fall away from the adults in the identical species, Archaeoceratops doesn’t try this.

Garret: All proper.

Eric Morschhauser: I’ve received skulls which might be half the scale of the grownup they usually appear to be they’re younger, they’ve received these massive orbits, they’ve received these quick snarls, however they’ve received a lowered tooth rely, no person makes use of these issues as phylogenetic characters as a result of all people is aware of that skulls, vertebrates are born with these form of cute faces, they’ve received these massive eyes and these quick snarls. And so no person makes use of these varieties of traits however all of the discrete characters which might be distinctive of Auroraceratops are current in these little skulls.

And so these juveniles are falling precisely with the adults and I feel what is likely to be happening there’s, I feel the work by Evans and Horner, they’re dinosaurs with these elaborate cranial constructions which might be additionally showing comparatively late in life, these form of presumably no matter their operate is, whether or not it’s species recognition or sexual choice, or some form of form of social function when it comes to figuring out who’s the dominant no matter in your explicit social grouping, however these all seem actually late whereas the traits that outline Archaeoceratops are literally largely within the decrease jaw and largely associated to chewing. And so that you’ve received this example the place it’s like that most likely doesn’t change.

Garret: Yeah.

Eric Morschhauser: And so these statements about effectively you want a very grownup dinosaur to ensure you know what you will have, however these conditions the place you will have a form of want a very grownup dinosaur to know what you will have, which may solely be true in case your explicit group of dinosaurs will depend on these elaborate constructions to determine who’s associated to who, as a result of sauropods, it’s like, in the event you had a sauropod with all types of loopy cranial horns and issues, you’d do not know, we may most likely have a complete clad of sauropods that had loopy cranial ornamentation and we wouldn’t understand it as a result of most of them usually are not recognized from any heads.

And so I feel it’s attention-grabbing form of counterbalance that it’s like I feel they’re completely proper that it’s a must to watch out relying on what your characters are that distinguishe your species.

Garret: Yeah, it is smart and if it’s one thing purposeful like in the event you had been arguing that Torosaurus wanted these additional blood vessels or no matter in its frail with a view to thermal regulate, then you definitely would say effectively then it’s most likely not the identical as Triceratops as a result of it will have needed it when it was two thirds the scale as effectively or one thing.

Eric Morschhauser: Yeah, or even when it was one thing you understand completely unrelated that needed to do with some one thing purposeful, making an attempt to assume in the event you had radically totally different jaw mechanics between the 2 or one thing like that, the place it’s like, no it’s consuming, like you may’t have dietary shifts by way of progress. Herbivores have a tendency to try this much less then than different vertebrates at the very least within the fundamental sense of they’re consuming crops they usually’re consuming crops versus issues like juvenile crocodilians what are they consuming? They’re consuming bugs, they’re consuming little fish like grownup crocodilians, what are they consuming? A few of them are consuming turtles.

Garret: Deer.

Eric Morschhauser: Proper. Turtles, deer, invasive pythons, you get these wider ranges. A few of them eat mollusks, you’ve received caymans and even truly American crocodiles will eat mollusks, after they’re adults they’ll simply throw them again on these uncommon enamel and crack the shells, so you will get these dietary shifts, however it’s much less probably that you simply’re going to have essentially various kinds of consuming, you’re not going to be radically shifting muscle attachment factors round between juveniles and grownup’s.

So I feel that’s attention-grabbing that while you get to those form of much less spectacular dinosaurs, it may not matter as a lot precisely what on a genetic stage you’re in, and once more all these limits on that as effectively. Hatchlings, you must most likely by no means use hatchlings if that’s your solely specimen, and also you don’t know what the grownup appears like as a result of they’re going to be actually totally different than the grownup.

Garret: Yeah. Talking of consuming, did you see the latest article by [inaudible 00:43:31] the place he was speaking about how ceratopsians might need had nostril balloons?

Eric Morschhauser: Sure I did.

Garret: What do you concentrate on that?

Eric Morschhauser: I feel they need to be doing one thing with their nasal cavities as a result of the ceratopsids, once more issues like Triceratops however all of it, centrosaurines as effectively have these actually massive, simply these huge, in some circumstances actually huge bony nostrils. There’s received to be one thing happening there and also you actually can have huge bony nasal openings with a comparatively easy easy sheet of pores and skin protecting it and tiny little nostrils there, and also you’re nonetheless doing thrilling issues with that. You’re doing a lot of thermal regulation, you may have all these blood vessels and also you’re dumping—it’s an incredible warmth dump for issues like Triceratops, grownup Triceratops or Torosaurus or no matter Torosaurus is, they’re massive animals, they’re the scale of an elephant which [inaudible 00:44:34] considered them as quick being shorter, however they’re nearly as tall as an elephant on the shoulders.

Their [inaudible 00:44:40] are actually huge animals which might be going to be producing plenty of warmth they usually’ve received to dump it someplace and positive they’ll dump it, they’ve received flails, they’ve received tails, they’ve received some issues you may dump warmth in, however the respiratory system is de facto your finest solution to dump warmth, so actually that’s happening, however issues like Triceratops, it will get actually complicated. I’ve labored on some Triceratops however truly engaged on Triceratops course of specimen evaluation, I feel it’s the method specimen.

However the premaxilla, it’s been—the specimen I’m engaged on, it’s being described by considered one of my co-authors as yeah the Triceratops is form of a grenade. So it saved its buddies with its skulls blown to items and the premaxilla round that nasal opening, it simply will get very complicated, it’s closely sculpted and there are all these excavations and when you will have simply little items of it, it may be actually disorienting as to precisely the place you’re on this one bone the place it’s just like the nostril and the sting of the mouth on each ends of its bone.

However once more these cavities and these constructions, it’s actually fairly superb. So the chance that you simply’ve received some form of elephant seal like proboscis or a snude or one thing like you will have of turkeys, proper,one thing that it may get engorged with blood or one thing like that, I feel it’s actually throughout the realm of chance. We simply had Thanksgiving, take a look at a turkey. That’s from an asteological standpoint, that’s a reasonably boring chook truly for probably the most half my favourite description now of Thanksgiving. Someplace I noticed a greeting someplace of, “The way to have a cheerful day consuming your ugly dinosaur,” and I feel I’m going to try this sooner or later. However yeah I feel it’s actually one thing is feasible, however I don’t know why Triceratops, some like Triceratops would wish that with a frill and horns.

Garret: Yeah.

Eric Morschhauser: But it surely actually may have one thing not large and dramatic however it’s prefer it may have some form of inflatable nostril pouches or one thing like that, or it may simply all be blood vessels and a warmth dump and It appears like how we all the time thought Triceratops seemed however functionally it’s nonetheless a bit of bit cooler.

Garret: Yeah. It’s received like a radiator upfront like a automobile.

Eric Morschhauser: Precisely the place once more you get that massive, you bought to place warmth someplace. I feel that’s one of many beauties of sauropods truly to modify taxon but once more is that it’s Iike so huge, like we’ve received to get warmth someplace however then you definitely’re like, “Oh wait, you bought an extended skinny neck, that’s received plenty of floor space and you may dump some warmth there, you’ve received an extended skinny tail, that’s some extra floor space, that’s good.” They usually’ve received their respiratory system weirdness. However anyway yeah dumping warmth some [inaudible 00:47:29] so while you get that massive.

Garret: Cool. I feel I’m all out of questions, is there the rest that you simply wish to add.

Eric Morschhauser: The opposite cool factor about Archaeoceratops is that we truly now know what these early horned dinosaurs appears like, as a result of all people else that’s round Archaeoceratops is simply heads and we now know truly what the physique of considered one of these early horned dinosaurs appears like. It’s a bit of bit extra portly than I used to be anticipating, not an excessive amount of however it’s not this lengthy skinny skinny physique, it’s truly a reasonably stocky little physique, nonetheless by [inaudible 00:48:10], nonetheless has your normal.

I really feel like there’s this form of normal extra environment friendly palms that appear to be tiny little quick fingers mittens. However Archaeoceratops nonetheless has that however the physique is a bit of bit shorter than we’d essentially count on it. So it appears like one thing that has form of a little bit of a giant head for its physique dimension, not large however nonetheless a little bit of a giant head. And once more I simply—I point out this as a result of you will have Stegosaurus and you’ve got lengthy and stuff additional down the tree and also you’ve received Leptoceratops however actually these are like actually removed from these animals which might be truly resulting in most ceratopsians. Leptoceratops contemporaneous with Triceratops, it’s being doing its personal factor for 40 million years. In order that’s the cool factor about Archaeoceratops, however I don’t know.

Garret: Nonetheless.

Eric Morschhauser: Yeah, it’s enjoyable, so I don’t know, I’m making an attempt to be a champion of boring dinosaurs, as a result of I really feel just like the little guys can truly nonetheless train us loads.

Garret: So if folks wish to observe your work or see among the stuff you’re engaged on, is there wherever they’ll go to see it?

Eric Morschhauser: Effectively when you have some huge cash and you may fly, my colleague Linda Chin did some work with the Ganzhou Geological Museum in Lanzhou, China. And so you may go there and you may see some Archaeoceratops there. The Archaeoceratops are literally it’s actually humorous, if you wish to go and see an Archaeoceratops, if you will get to China, there’s plenty of totally different locations you may go and see Archaeoceratops, it’s form of attention-grabbing. They’ve form of gotten round from my colleague and so there’s—making an attempt to assume now, there’s one on show within the Paleontological Museum of the China College of the Geo sciences which is in Beijing.

I don’t assume the Museum will get plenty of foot visitors however there’s an Auroraceratop there in a glass case, there’s one unlabeled in Nanjing, I’m making an attempt to recollect the establishment that’s in now, however you may see them in Nanjing, there’s a specimen in Hangzhou which is a incredible pure historical past museum. Hangzhou is simply exterior of Shanghai they usually’ve received the Hangzhou Museum of Pure Historical past which is a very first price museum, it’s received very nice amenities.

Garret: Is that one actually new?

Eric Morschhauser: It’s comparatively new, sure. It’s on this massive cultural heart that they’ve in-built Hangzhou. It form of has an statement tower that’s form of the sq. trying factor after which a semicircle of buildings and simply a part of that vast complicated is the Pure Historical past Museum.

Garret: Yeah that place appears actually cool. I keep in mind I used to be making an attempt so as to add it to our map, we’ve a map of all these dinosaur museums, and I used to be satellite tv for pc footage as a result of I used to be making an attempt to make it possible for the deal with is true and that the latitude and longitude is figuring out, and one image I discovered was only a city, after which you would inform the place the photograph received up to date and it was like model new re-developed all kinds of huge fancy [inaudible 00:51:21], I used to be like, “One thing occurred right here, I’ll simply assume it’s proper.”

Eric Morschhauser: Yeah, that’s the story of a lot of locations in China. I first went there in 2005 as Beijing was ramping up for the 2008 Olympics, and driving round Beijing to go from one airport to a lodge to a different airport and there have been simply cranes, tower cranes in all places all throughout totally different elements of town. They’re simply constructing, constructing, constructing. Hangzhou is comparatively new they usually received plenty of eggs there, a lot of fossil eggs, 1000’s and 1000’s of fossils eggs, there are in Guangdong Province, and so there’s plenty of fossil egg localities close to there. So you may see Archaeoceratops in a lot of locations round China, whether or not or not they’re labeled is a little bit of a distinct story, however that’s the place most of it’s proper now.

A few of my different issues I feel maybe journey round a bit, the Diana Museum of Pure Historical past which is the place I did some work on that second specimen of mahjong, and should often have touring displays. So I noticed a bunch of plenty of their stuff in Montreal Canada in a tent which I used to be a bit of bit distressed about, however it was all there.

Garret: It’s good.

Eric Morschhauser: However anyway, yeah so most of my stuff you would need to purchase a airplane ticket to China to go see.

Garret: Okay, I’m positive a few of it should make it over right here finally.

Eric Morschhauser: Considered one of as of late, finally.

Garret: Cool. Effectively thanks a lot for taking the time to speak to me, that was an incredible dialogue.

Eric Morschhauser: Yeah, effectively I admire it. You’ve received an incredible factor right here.



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