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I Know Dino Podcast Present Notes: Shantungosaurus (Episode 89)


    In our 89th episode, we had the pleasure of talking with David Trexler, Cory Coverdell, and Kara Ludwig from the Two Medication Dinosaur Heart in Bynum, Montana.

    To study extra in regards to the museum, take a look at our video in half 3 of our #EpicDinosaurRoadTrip.

    Episode 89 can also be all about Shantungosaurus, one of many largest recognized ornithischians.

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    On this episode, we talk about:

    • The dinosaur of the day: Shantungosaurus
    • Identify means “Shandong Lizard”
    • Kind species is Shantungosaurus giganteus
    • Described in 1973 by Hu, and recognized from 5 incomplete skeletons
    • Discovered a bone mattress of 5 people, none full
    • Composited bones to mount one of many largest hadrosaurids
    • Composite skeleton is mounted on the Geological Institute of China in Beijing, and is 48 ft (14.7 m ) lengthy
    • One other mounted skeleton, which was referred to as Zhuchengosaurus maximus, is 54 ft (16.6 m) lengthy
    • Synonym is Zhuchengosaurus maximus
    • Zhuchengosaurus turned out to be a distinct development stage of Shantungosaurus
    • One of many largest recognized ornithischians
    • In all probability the most important non-sauropod (largest ornithischian)
    • Might have weighed as much as 16 tons (18 brief tons)
    • Cranium that was discovered is 5.3 ft (1.63 m) lengthy
    • Spinosaurus had comparable size, however didn’t weigh as a lot
    • Unclear why it was so massive
    • Saurolophine hadrosaurid that lived within the late Cretaceous in what’s now China
    • Xu Xing and colleagues stated it’s much like Edmontosaurus
    • No crest on the highest of the cranium, so not a saurolophine, however had a big nasal opening
    • Close to its nostrils is a big gap, probably lined by a free flap that it might inflate to make sounds
    • Might have made sounds to defend its territory
    • Had a toothless beak, however its jaws had 1500 chewing tooth
    • Hadrosauridae (duck billed dinosaurs) is a household of widespread herbivores from the Cretaceous whose fossils have been present in Asia, Europe, and North America
    • Enjoyable reality: Although snakes can’t see as extensive of a spectrum of purple as dinosaurs in all probability might, they’ll “see” infrared (AKA warmth). Actually the pit viper is called after a pit that appears rather a lot like a nostril, however is definitely a delicate infrared detector. They usually seem to make use of this organ whereas searching to search out an uncovered space on heat blooded prey. These IR detecting pits seem to have advanced a minimum of twice independently amongst totally different teams of snakes, so it’s potential that possibly just a few dinosaurs advanced the flexibility too. And if say T-rex had advanced infra-red imaginative and prescient we couldn’t inform by birds since T-rex had already cut up from the group of dinosaurs that later advanced into birds.

    For many who could desire studying, see under for the complete transcript of our interview withDavid Trexler, Cory Coverdell, and Kara Ludwig:

    Garret: So I assume the most important query, the simplest query, effectively possibly not the simplest reply, is what drew you to Bynum to open a dinosaur museum right here?

    David Trexler: Effectively my mom discovered her first dinosaur bone nearly 5 miles west of right here again in 1917. My household homesteaded right here, and I knew that there have been dinosaur stays right here earlier than I knew that there have been dinosaur museums. So it’s all the time been right here that was my first place to look. However then I’ve labored just about all of the necessary locations in western North America, and what that has carried out is it’s important to go away dwelling and take a look at different locations earlier than you understand how particular house is. And for me the fantastic factor is the Two Medication formation turned out to be distinctive on this planet. We’ve discovered so many firsts, if you’ll, so many new issues that it actually was a spectacular place to be for paleo.

    Garret: Nice. And talking of firsts, you guys discovered domestically the primary nesting dinosaur I assume you’d say.

    David Trexler: We discovered the primary child dinosaur bones in a nest wherever on this planet, sure. That discovery modified the way in which your complete world considered animals generally, and reptiles a minimum of, not simply dinosaurs due to the distinctive means they have been preserved. So actually cool discover.

    Garret: Yeah positively, and one other distinctive factor about your museum is you could have the world’s largest dinosaur reproduction I assume you’d name it.

    David Trexler: Yeah, reconstruction.

    Cory Coverdell: So it’s 137 toes lengthy, 137.5, and it’s a mannequin of Seismosaurus, which was discovered down in New Mexico.

    David Trexler: Some individuals not use the title Seismosaurus there’s been a paper or two printed altering the title, however there’s some issues with these publications and sometime someone’s going to undergo that entire factor and it’ll both be again to Seismosaurus or it’ll be Diplodocus halli.

    Sabrina: How did you determine to make that reproduction?

    David Trexler: The reproduction was constructed usually because we have been contracted to construct the centerpiece for the most important travelling exhibition on this planet, the factor referred to as Dino Fest again within the Nineties. And the most important exhibition needed the most important dinosaur to be part of it. The issue was at the moment a few paleontologists have been having this bit argument over whose is largest, so you already know Dave Gillette together with his Seismosaurus versus Jim Jensen and Supersaurus, and we needed to decide which one would have truly been the most important. After which a part of what we have been requested to do was decide whether or not there might have been one thing even greater on the market, and naturally there all the time might have been.

    However what we ended up doing at that time was going to each museum in western North America that had sauropod stays and contacting principally all the opposite museums around the globe and getting measurements on sure bones that will give us an concept on what sizes that they had, and simply bone items. We had many many extra bone items in collections than we do skeletons, so items inform us extra truly. And the results of all of that was we have been capable of construct this reproduction to not solely match what we decided to be barely the most important of the 2, Seismosaurus versus supersaurus, however then scale it up barely to match the most important particular person bones we additionally have been made conscious of. In order that’s the way it got here to be.

    Garret: After which when the exhibit ended you simply received it again and wrapped it up in your museum?

    David Trexler: When the exhibit ended the corporate contacted us and requested us if we’d like to purchase it. And an remoted museum out in the midst of nowhere, we knew how a lot they paid to have it constructed and there’s no means we might ever afford that. However yr’s negotiation and a extremely inventive refinance on nearly all the pieces we owned we ended up with it.

    Garret: Cool. Do you assume it attracts lots of people to the museum?

    David Trexler: It in all probability accounts for possibly one out of seven folks that come by means of the door I might say.

    Sabrina: That’s fairly good.

    Garret: Yeah. Talking of issues that deliver individuals in, there’s the Montana Dinosaur Path I wanna say it’s referred to as with 12 museums I wanna say, or there abouts?

    Cory Coverdell: 14.

    Garret: 14, okay. I do know one among them closed lately.

    Cory Coverdell: It was 15.

    Garret: Oh 15.

    David Trexler: Truly we’ve had two shut and we’ve added one because the inception.

    Garret: Cool. Do you assume that brings lots of people right here too? Do you get lots of people with that, there’s like a passport or one thing you will get stamped at each museum?

    David Trexler: I believe that it brings in truly just a few greater than the precise Seismosaurus exhibit. It’s in all probability on the neighborhood of 1 out of each 5 individuals come by means of the door are conscious of the Montana Dinosaur Path.

    Garret: Cool.

    Kara Ludwig: A number of instances they’re not essentially actively doing the passport, however they now know oh the Montana Dinosaur Path, I ought to go to all these museums.

    Garret: Do you, I used to be questioning how that labored as a result of I do know you get like a shirt or one thing in case you go to all of them. Do you guys have like a inventory of those shirts? Or what do you do when somebody will get right here they’re like okay I’m carried out?

    David Trexler: The shirt is shipped to them.

    Garret: Oh gotcha.

    Cory Coverdell: There’s the one woman who takes care of all of the background for the group and she or he will get the shirt orders from us and sends out the shirt.

    Sabrina: After which after all you’ve additionally in all probability drawn in lots of people along with your instructor-led just like the digs and…

    Cory Coverdell: We ran between three and 4 hundred individuals each summer time by means of our discipline applications. So it’s fairly just a few individuals, it’s truly one of many major methods we fund our group.

    Garret: Nice.

    David Trexler: And due to the applications we now have truly extra attendance apart from the large government-funded amenities, you already know, actually are marketed as attracts in their very own proper. Issues like Makoshika Park and the Museum of the Rockies, the Fort Peck Interpretive Heart, we’re quantity 4 after these three.

    Garret: Oh wow, that’s nice. Particularly for a city of what did you say, 31?

    David Trexler: 31.

    Sabrina: 37 in the summertime.

    Garret: How lots of the 31 folks that stay in Bynum work right here?

    Cory Coverdell: Work right here or related to this place? Eight within the winter and fourteen.

    Garret: That’s good. I guess in case you did just like the statistics you is likely to be like the most important share employer of like a metropolis.

    Cory Coverdell: We must always run these statistics, that will be enjoyable.

    Garret: You in all probability make use of extra individuals than like Microsoft employs in like Seattle and issues like that.

    Cory Coverdell: However solely in the course of the summer time.

    Sabrina: Effectively I used to be interested by like what we did as we speak. What was the official title if it?

    Kara Ludwig: So it was a full day dig program, so we prefer to take individuals out to our websites and present them how you can determine dinosaur bone, get them understanding how paleontology truly works. It’s not all discovering an ideal dinosaur within the floor with only a layer of sand protecting it and there you go and also you simply dig out every bone and there you go.

    Sabrina: It’s none of that.

    Kara Ludwig: None of that. We’re very centered on scientific analysis and never simply in gathering issues as a result of they’re neat. We actually need to get it throughout to the general public that paleontology truly is correct science, and that it includes numerous buying information and decoding issues based mostly on that.

    Cory Coverdell: Discovering neat stuff is basically cool although.

    Kara Ludwig: Discovering neat stuff is basically cool.

    Garret: And when did you guys begin that program?

    David Trexler: Truly this system began this facility.

    Garret: Oh actually?

    David Trexler: We have been doing analysis in public teaching programs by means of the Outdated Path Museum for a few years, however in 1995 the board down there determined that instances have been powerful and analysis actually didn’t contribute that a lot, and this space was already well-known for what had already been carried out. So that they actually needed to change extra to simply straight interpretive applications, and a few of us hadn’t gone to highschool for 9 years after highschool and obtained levels to inform individuals what our colleagues have been doing and never with the ability to do it ourselves. So we got here up right here.

    Garret: Cool.

    Sabrina: What’s essentially the most thrilling factor somebody has discovered? I do know somebody discovered a tyrannosaur tooth on one of many websites.

    Garret: On one of many digs, as a layman.

    Sabrina: Simply as, yeah within the nesting website.

    Kara Ludwig: Yeah so simply final week we had a girl discover a tyrannosaur tooth, and the week earlier than {that a} youngster truly discovered the primary embryonic bone at our nest website. That was fairly thrilling. And it was form of simply luck however you already know that’s actually cool.

    Cory Coverdell: From our applications we’ve had individuals discover dinosaur toes. There’s been a part of a, we expect it’s an […] (00:10:11) arm in all probability, we don’t know precisely what it’s but. A number of the little bits, numerous cool stuff although.

    David Trexler: Probably the most vital factor contributors have discovered thus far with us is a website that was found in 1997 the place we now have stays, we collected over 2,000 specimens, particular person bones after which components, from a minimum of 11 particular person animals. And it’s the primary website the place a number of people of tyrannosaurs and hadrosaurs have been discovered collectively with out being a, what we name an accretional bone mattress, with out being simply one thing that’s carried down river and piled. These animals have been truly interacting with one another after they died. Makes it a world-class discovery, and really papers are in press now.

    The issue we’ve received whenever you discover one thing like that’s you’ve received you already know 20, 30, generally even a 50 yr lag based mostly on how lengthy it truly takes to protect and put together all of those bones out of the matrix. That discovery is now nonetheless the principle factor you see on the market individuals engaged on, and hopefully we’ll have sufficient of it carried out this yr that, extra than simply the introductory papers which have truly been printed will get carried out this yr.

    Garret: Wow that’d be nice.

    Sabrina: What number of totally different websites have you ever had contributors be on?

    Cory Coverdell: Effectively over 50.

    Sabrina: Wow.

    Garret: Are they largely native? I do know you do some joint work with one other museum in Montana.

    Cory Coverdell: We’ve truly collaborated on dig websites all throughout Montana with six different members of the Montana Dinosaur Path and we do numerous work throughout. It has to do with staffing greater than something. We now have you already know degreed paleontologists on workers which a lot of the different amenities don’t, in order that they prefer to share us bits. It is without doubt one of the good issues that we are able to do this different amenities, a few them have fantastic preparation labs, individuals who can put these items again collectively within the lab. So numerous instances it’s a synergistic factor. They do a few of the work, we do a few of the work, and we collaborate on the publications and works to all people’s profit.

    Garret: That’s nice.

    Sabrina: It’s. I used to be pondering as we speak as a participant although that’s placing numerous belief into your contributors. As a result of like me I believed it was actually good how a lot time you took to elucidate to us okay that is how you discover fossils beforehand and like issues to search for and stuff however like I used to be very dangerous at discovering fossils and was somewhat bit apprehensive like oh no I hope I don’t mess something up after I’m digging.

    Garret: Yeah. You didn’t.

    Sabrina: In order for you, might share with us like a few of the stuff you have been telling us about, like okay what do you search for whenever you’re in search of fossils?

    Kara Ludwig: So once we are in search of bone and attempting to find out the distinction between bone and rock you’re in search of a distinction principally in coloration, form and texture. Usually the colour of bone may be very dissimilar from the rock that it’s embedded in, not on a regular basis. Not on a regular basis. After which the form, one thing that’s formed like a bone, or typically due to the construction of bone issues are extra angular and fewer rounded until they’ve been carried away from some place upstream. After which the feel, once more that is in all probability the most important factor, is in search of one thing that’s the texture of bone. Seems to be form of like a cluster of straws which can be bunched collectively, so that you see a linear sample on one aspect and you then would see one thing that’s extra porous on the finish. That’s not all the time simple both, however these together. And the lick take a look at, the place in case you lick your thumb after which contact the bone and see if it sticks, you’ll truly really feel that bone stick with, like suck up that water because of capillary motion you may work out whether or not it’s bone. Hopefully. Once more, not on a regular basis.

    Garret: Yeah, and also you even have that, what’s the machine you simply confirmed us referred to as?

    David Trexler: It’s referred to as a scintillometer. So it detects radiation. We don’t get to make use of it on a regular basis however each as soon as in awhile we’ll discover a quarry that has some radioactive dinosaur bone and we are able to use that to do some little bit of exploration. It’s not tremendous helpful however it’s numerous enjoyable. I often simply search for one thing that’s not rock. So whenever you take a look at sandstone all day by means of a microscope you get fairly accustomed to recognizing one thing that’s not sandstone.

    Kara Ludwig: And in case you search for sure layers, like we have been speaking in regards to the distinction between one thing that’s gonna be a […] (00:15:26) soil that has numerous plant materials in it versus one thing that appears gray and boring and prefer it didn’t have as a lot oxygen content material since you don’t have as a lot oxidation of iron stuff in it, you is likely to be extra prone to discover bone in there. Dave truly did numerous surveying in his airplane.

    David Trexler: One of many issues that we search for are sure textural patterns in rock layers, and the important thing to that’s actually terrestrial sediments are a jumble. You take a look at a collection of rock that was laid down initially on land and it appears to be like totally different you already know in case you journey just a few toes both path or no matter, and that’s very distinctive moderately than seen the identical rock stratum, you already know, throughout for miles on an publicity. In order that’s actually the distinction between terrestrial and marine sediments, and in order that’s the primary key. It’s important to search for one thing terrestrial. After which from an airplane you may nonetheless spot you already know terrestrial sediments. You can too spot sure options which can be giveaways for you already know indicators that say look right here. One of many issues that inform us rather a lot are accretional beds, channel lag deposits, principally the place streams used to movement and on the backside of the stream mattress there’s all the time the rocks which can be pushed alongside on the underside of the stream. In areas the place fossils are preserved numerous instances these are literally the fossils we’re in search of. And what that tells us in an space like that may be a normal image of what animals and generally even what crops have been dwelling in that individual area and in that snapshot in time. So in case you see a construction that’s clearly a filled-in channel, which is that if you already know what you’re in search of not too tough to identify from an airplane, then you may say okay on the backside of that construction there’s in all probability a kind of issues we should always search for.

    Garret: And that plus 20, 30, 40 years of expertise.

    David Trexler: We received’t go into what number of years of expertise.

    Cory Coverdell: 50? 60?

    Garret: Cool

    Sabrina: Is that the way you discovered the location the place you discovered your nodosaur?

    Cory Coverdell: No, the nodosaur was close to a website we have been already working, and there occurred to be a highway that some individuals had tried to chop into the, to get to the decrease website, and simply someday I used to be strolling up the highway as a result of we’d been working this website for 2, three months, and after I received to the highest of the hill I regarded down and there’s this little factor, it regarded kinda like a turtle shell. However whenever you regarded nearer it turned out to be a bit of armor, one of many scoots from an armored dinosaur. So we received out and we began poking round wanting somewhat bit nearer and you discover one other one, discover one other one, we dug again somewhat bit, seems we discovered the higher a part of a hind leg from that animal, and this was simply late within the fall so we principally needed to cowl all the pieces up and are available again to it. So we got here again the subsequent yr and began digging and it seems that there was in all probability 60 or 70 p.c of that animal nonetheless beneath the bottom, so it was a fairly cool discover.

    Garret: That’s what you have been saying, that’s form of concept. You need simply the sting of the dinosaur protruding.

    Cory Coverdell: Precisely, the best discover for a paleontologist is to simply discover the tip of the tail protruding or the top of a toe protruding, after which for your complete animal to nonetheless be beneath the bottom.

    David Trexler: Sadly we don’t discover animals all laid out such as you image a skeleton. When you’ve ever seen an animal carcass decay it’s solely held collectively for just a few days at most after which items begin disappearing. So truly this nodosaur was in all probability buried fairly quickly as a result of the majority of the animal just isn’t articulated, it’s not so as, but it surely’s what we name related. Mainly a lot of the bones that went to the animal are nonetheless within the normal space.

    Sabrina: When will you already know sufficient to have the ability to title it?

    David Trexler: As quickly as Cory finishes the preparation on it.

    Cory Coverdell: Yeah I’ve received that jacket and that jacket left, so… Subsequent yr in all probability.

    Garret: How lengthy did it take you to get that out of the rock?

    Cory Coverdell: Two months.

    Garret: Oh that’s truly faster than I might have thought.

    David Trexler: Out of the bottom.

    Cory Coverdell: Out of the bottom.

    David Trexler: He’s been engaged on it for, taking it out of the jackets and issues for the final two years.

    Cory Coverdell: Two years, so we dug that in the summertime of 2012. Discovered it observe 2011, after which I’ve been engaged on it ever since.

    Garret: I used to be form of questioning, it’s somewhat little bit of an apart, however how have you learnt, you had talked about that you just go roughly a meter away from the final bone that you just discover. Is that principally the way you determine okay that is all of it, I’m gonna wrap it up in plaster and take it out?

    Cory Coverdell: It’s actually simply an arbitrary quantity. Sooner or later you may dig for an additional 50 meters and never discover one other merchandise, one other piece, so that you simply set one meter. One meter’s attainable. So you’d set it at one meter, you dig previous that, and in case you don’t discover the rest you discover a totally different path to go.

    David Trexler: And a few websites you wouldn’t give up there, different websites you may give up sooner. The center of it’s expertise and studying how bones are deposited. We do numerous experimentation with bones in streams and flumes to find out how carcasses could be deposited, however you already know what that can inform us is which path to dig in and the way far to dig, as a result of you already know I’ve dug on quarries the place the bones are a meter aside, and I’ll inform you that’s a depressing factor to do.

    Cory Coverdell: Have been these sauropod quarries?

    David Trexler: Sure.

    Cory Coverdell: Oh. Metered lengthy bone a meter aside makes for an actual massive quarry.

    David Trexler: It does.

    Garret: I feel the opposite massive dinosaur discovery that you just haven’t named but is that displetosaurus.

    Cory Coverdell: That’s a part of the Bob Quarry that Dave was speaking about earlier. Effectively we’ll work on that over the subsequent few months and hopefully we’ll have a publication about this time subsequent yr.

    Garret: Cool.

    Cory Coverdell: Sounds about proper doesn’t it?

    David Trexler: Will probably be submitted about, effectively, someday between November and this time subsequent yr. So the primary of a minimum of six publications we now have listed that we went to do on that. Couple of these we nonetheless have numerous preparation to take action that’s a kind of websites that’s not only a single episode. That’s form of a complete individual’s lifetime profession. It’s like not a superb factor to search out whenever you’re a fledgling establishment.

    Cory Coverdell: Somebody’s PhD, somebody’s post-doc, somebody’s post-post-doc.

    David Trexler: Just about.

    Garret: What number of paleontologists do you could have on workers?

    David Trexler: There’s two of us with graduate levels. We now have three extra which can be adjunct workers if you’ll. They’re individuals on name that come and work half time and have explicit specialties, you already know. Once we discover one thing that’s of their realm of experience they get entangled. In any other case they’ve actual jobs elsewhere.

    Garret: Cool. And also you stated it grows in the summertime somewhat bit, extra individuals present as much as assist? Or are these extra like volunteers?

    David Trexler: Our workers grows as effectively. We’ve received a geologist that’s truly been with major part of GSA for a few years that comes out and teaches a category with us each summer time. Lots of people like that that you already know can afford every week or two. Our facility is usually volunteer and all the pieces we do is paid for by what comes by means of the door so we are able to’t afford to rent individuals like that full time in order that they present up after they can afford to and once we can afford to have them.

    Garret: Cool.

    Sabrina: Is there the rest that individuals ought to learn about this museum?

    David Trexler: For somewhat museum we now have already in our collections extra vital specimens than in all probability anybody else on the Montana Dinosaur Path besides Museum of the Rockies. There’s us and a pair others that basically have numerous great things that we’ve discovered already. Our mission is definitely to include the general public as a lot as potential in what we do, and…

    Cory Coverdell: Fingers-on schooling with precise, precise analysis.

    David Trexler: So we actually are desirous about individuals coming and seeing what we do, and that leads into one among my massive missions if you’ll, my cleaning soap field is paleontology just isn’t a lifeless science, no pun supposed. Effectively sure there was a pun supposed, however the concept is so lots of the issues that we’re doing that assist trendy human life and way of life comes from discoveries that we within the earth sciences have made, however we by no means get credit score for it so any time I’ve a venue like this I like to speak about it. You recognize if it weren’t for us and our discoveries individuals would nonetheless assume that alligators and crocodiles have been these primitive creatures that in the event that they have been disturbed would eat their younger, and they’d nonetheless assume that turtles and crocs had the identical cold-blooded metabolism. There can be no 30 plus main telescopes wanting, scanning the celebs for the subsequent massive rock from area that may hit us. And you already know there’s points with local weather change that we now have talked about that in all probability 5, ten years from now you’ll hear every kind of cash being despatched to trendy local weather analysis based mostly on what they’ve received inaccurate for the time being. So we contribute rather a lot but it surely’s onerous to make individuals perceive that understanding the previous is vital to understanding what this Earth is able to and what we’re going to face at present and sooner or later. However that’s actually what we do.

    Garret: Yeah.

    Sabrina: Yeah, it’s necessary.

    Garret: Yeah and we had a good time going out and studying. It was very instructional, very enjoyable.

    Kara Ludwig: Yay, good.

    Sabrina: What’s your favourite dinosaur? We’ll simply go round.

    Cory Coverdell: Mine is the one which I discovered. I don’t know what its title is.

    Sabrina: Do you could have any concepts for names or is that one thing that…

    Cory Coverdell: Not that I’m gonna placed on a podcast.

    Sabrina: That’s honest.

    Cory Coverdell: Relying on how irritating it’s it has a number of fascinating names.

    Kara Ludwig: I just like the Xenosaurus as a result of it’s very odd and Microraptor once more as a result of it’s very odd.

    Cory Coverdell: You may relate to it proper?

    Kara Ludwig: Yeah. Similar to me.

    David Trexler: Mine has all the time been the one which my household and I’ve been concerned with just about each main discovery of since its first being recognized, and that’s Maisaura.

    Kara Ludwig: Montana State fossil.

    Garret: Put it on a license plate.

    David Trexler: Though my license plate, due to my final title my nickname is Trex, so I’ve Trex on my license plate. It wasn’t till I truly received it and someone noticed it and got here in, oh you want T-rex? No, not notably. Effectively you could have it in your license plate. No… I assume I do. Sorry about that.

    Garret: That’s nice.

    Sabrina: Oops.

    Garret: Cool.

    Sabrina: Effectively thanks a lot for taking the time to speak with us.

    Kara Ludwig: Thanks guys, thanks for popping out.

    Sabrina: It was nice.

    Kara Ludwig: Thanks for not breaking something and for by no means having me freak out since you by no means stated uh-oh.

    Sabrina: We stored that to ourselves.

    Garret: Till we found out that we didn’t smash something.


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